Connecting People and Organizations: Why Meaningful Conversations Are Still Too Often Missing | Anders Denken Podcast #39 with Ellen Leliveld

Every organization says that people are its most important asset. Yet in practice, that’s often where things go wrong: when it comes to change, onboarding, leadership, and communication. In episode #39 of the Anders Denken Podcast, host Cis Hageman talks with Ellen Leliveld (founder of Durescom) about how to truly connect people and organizations and why assumptions are often the biggest pitfall in this process.

Good intentions aren't enough

According to Ellen, many problems arise not from a lack of willingness, but rather from good intentions. Organizations want to communicate carefully, keep employees informed, and prevent unrest, but in doing so, they often go too far—either by sending out too much information or by sharing too little. In both cases, this leads to distance, unrest, or mistrust.

According to Ellen, the key is: explain what’s going on, be clear about what you can and cannot share, and make it clear what a change means for people.

The human side is still too often overlooked

Whether it’s a reorganization, a new IT system, or hybrid work, organizations often start by focusing on processes, structure, and goals. Only then do they consider what this requires of people. According to Ellen, that’s exactly where things go wrong.

She advocates for considering the human aspect much earlier on: what kind of profile do you need, what kind of guidance does that require from managers, and how do you ensure that employees feel heard rather than just informed?

Listening, data, and genuine attention

A key theme in this episode is the difference between assuming things are going well and truly understanding what’s going on. Ellen cites turnover rates, absenteeism rates, and employee satisfaction as valuable indicators. Not just to record them, but to have a real conversation.

She also emphasizes the importance of managers who can listen, provide clear guidelines, and don’t wait until things go wrong to have a conversation. It is precisely through daily interaction—not just through forms, apps, or protocols—that connections are formed.

Disconnection due to assumptions

Much of the friction between employees and the organization stems from assumptions on both sides: the organization thinks it knows what employees need, while employees assume that the other side “understands anyway.” This leads to misunderstandings, unspoken expectations, and ultimately to conflicts, absenteeism, or resignations.

Ellen’s message is clear: less paperwork, more testing, and having the real conversation sooner.

🎧 Curious about insights and practical advice on leadership, communication, employee turnover, and the connection between people and organizations? Listen to episode #39 of the Anders Denken Podcast with Ellen Leliveld below.